Dr. Alan “SamuraiPanda” Bunney and David “Mashumaro” Wu founded the fighting game community juggernaut Panda Global in 2015. Dr. Bunney’s hatred for regrets motivated him to juggle work in both the medical and esports industries. He became a full-time CEO for Panda in 2020 after mastering the nuances behind organizations. We sat down with the legendary SamuraiPanda to discuss desirable traits in aspiring talent, the hunger for growth, and the FGC’s content-driven future.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
Most have heard of Kung Fu Panda, but you are the original Samurai Panda. What characteristics of pandas and samurai do you admire the most?
Alan Bunney
*Chuckles*
I chose the name because Blizzard did an April Fool’s Joke in 2001 that was the start of their Pandaren class. There were a bunch of pandas who were also samurais. I’ve read many books on bushido and the loyalty and fierceness of samurai. The fact that they will always continue until their last breath was something I always admired. I always loved that code.
Pandas are cuddly and cute. So a threatening, non-threatening creature that you know to their dying breaths will accomplish what they're doing? Yeah, I think that fits my personality pretty well.
Tell me about the day you decided to found Panda.
I saw a friend of mine who was a player get mistreated by the owner of his team. The owner was pretty successful and I thought to myself, “I could do this whole esports thing better than this guy.” I can treat people like human beings, show them what they’re worth, and achieve more at the same time. Most teams in general do not know how to utilize the talents that they truly have. That was the day it started bubbling up in my head that maybe I should make my own team.
How did those characteristics -- the resilience to never give up combined with the non-threatening personality -- come into play with your vision for Panda?
Our new hashtag does a really good job of embodying that: #holdforward. When we bring in players we tell them, “This is what we believe, that you hold forward.” You always try to progress.
When I set goals I come at them with both hands outstretched so by the time I get to the original goal, I’ve already pushed the goalpost farther and farther down. I never let myself be satisfied. I always want to achieve more. I celebrate, but I'm already thinking about the next step. That’s what we tell our players and employees to do – embody that relentlessness and continue to work on it.
The vast majority, if not all of our players have grown tremendously. We pushed them. The bigger they grow, the better it is for me, so it's in my best interest to help.
Speaking of growth and development, what are three traits that you look for when signing new talent?
Depends on the game but one big thing we want is charisma. We want that X-factor. I could sign the number one player in different games, but if I don’t want to watch them stream, what am I gonna do with them? Winning isn’t everything.
We want players to take it to the next level for entertainment. Some people can do that with just their gameplay and no personality. Just the way they play sucks you in and that’s cool too.
Number two is a vision for the future. Even if they don’t know how to achieve it, they have those aspirations. We’ve signed players that have that X-factor, that charisma, but at the end of the day don’t necessarily want anything.
If you don’t have that hunger, where are you gonna go? You’ll just be fine at some point? If those numbers are huge and great that’s one thing but most of the time they’re not. Most of the time they’re just barely making a living when they could do so much better. If they don’t have that hunger, they’re not really a great fit for us.
The third trait is work ethic. If you get tired of the grind then competitive play and content creation aren’t for you. That’s okay, it's not for everyone.
Your competitive background is in Super Smash Bros. What made you want to include players from other fighting games when creating Panda Global?
I actually played all of the games. Smash was the one I went to tournaments for mostly. That was my main game. But I was actually one of the best Viewtiful Joes in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, the Japanese version. They butchered him in the US version. I even played Street Fighter IV.
I grew up with a brother and we had no neighbors our age so our dad got us a computer with floppy discs -- or hard discs, actually. One of them was Street Fighter II so we grew to love fighting games. They would drop us off at arcades and we would spend the entire day playing Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes, all the 1v1 games because that’s what two brothers could do. That really grew my love.
Smash made me discover that there’s more to playing games than ending up at the “next level.” I knew from the get-go that I wanted to do both fighting games and Smash when starting Panda. Smash was near and dear to my heart but so are fighting games. I can’t ignore them.
What was your greatest challenge when creating Panda?
The biggest difficulty was I didn’t understand what was behind an organization. When I first created Panda I was a Resident, a one-year doctor. I was putting in 80-hour workweeks, sometimes more, for the same hourly rate as people that flip burgers. Luckily I had some money saved in the tank.
The idea was that David [co-founder] would run everything and I would just fund it, watch, and help because I had to be a doctor. I very quickly realized an esports organization was not a one-man show. It started to spiral. I had to do more things like go to events and use social media. I never used social media in my life outside of the occasional Facebook post until I did Panda's for six years. People said we had a really good social media person and I would say, “Thanks, that’s me!”
How did you juggle both the medical and esports industries?
It's hard. But I guess my philosophy in life is that I hate regrets. The worst thing in the world to me is “What if?” I used to torture myself as a kid asking “What if I did this or what if I took this class? Or what if I explored being a lawyer instead of a doctor?" At some point, I said, “I hate this. I hate thinking What if? Why don’t I just do it?"
I decided to just do everything. If I have to sleep three or four hours a night to make an esports team then I will because I’ll never think, “What if?” again. I probably got my unhealthy work ethic from my father. He never went to our sports games when we were kids because he was working all of the time. I always thought I would never be like him but here I am, doing the same thing. I’m okay with that.
It's not easy being a doctor and tweeting between patients or going to a Code Blue during a tournament, then coming back to the stream when it's already over. But I just don’t wanna regret not doing this so I made it work.
It paid off. You moved to full-time CEO last year. What do you wish you knew in your first year that you know now?
I think the big thing now reflecting back is how to structure certain things. We scaled up as a company a lot in communicating with different team members. For instance, I’m used to getting my hands dirty and not letting others get their hands dirty for me.
I have to learn as a CEO that even though I’m four levels above someone, I don’t necessarily feel like I’m more important than they are with their opinions. Even interns can have a disagreement and convince me that I’m wrong.
That's logical, but not exactly how people work. When you give someone a suggestion as CEO they take it as an order. I don’t order people around too much, so I had to get used to that. No matter how much I tell them, “this is just a suggestion, an opinion,” my word is law with this many people in the company now. I wish I knew that going in because it caused problems.
Enough of the hardships. Let's talk about triumphs. What is the most memorable moment of your first year as CEO?
There are a lot of different ones. I can’t tell you one because you’d have to sign quite a few NDA’s to hear about it.
*Laughs*
It would probably be the growth of our players. We struggled to teach our players that content is king. They would just take it as a side gig. Quarantine forced them to understand that and with a lot of guidance and help, they flourished. The numbers for our players and streamers across the board are incredible.
One of our players, Kizzie Kay, we signed him at 20 viewers. He’s a fast learner. He streamed to 1,300 people yesterday. He’s incredible. I’m glad we gave him that platform and chance because no one else is going to do it.
The growth of our players’ brands in quarantine over the last year is my biggest pride point because it wasn’t easy. Most teams would rather sign big people than help grow their small players. That’s just not our philosophy. That’s not how we work.
Kizzie is pretty entertaining. What advice do you have for aspiring esports organizations that want to focus on fighting games?
*Makes face*
Good luck. This is the hardest community to really get behind esports organizations or companies in general. Figure out what you can do to further the community you want to focus on. Figure out how you can give back and what your niche is. Don’t split your interests.
You see us doing that because Panda is at the point where we can. But when you’re a small, up-and-coming org you really have to think about what you can give. What is different that no one else does? Do that, be good at it, and make sure it's something people want, then you will find success.
You can’t just get a jersey, throw it on someone’s back, and call it a day.
How has the relationship between esports and the FGC changed since launching Panda?
Eh, it hasn’t technically. The FGC thinks they’re not esports and have this anti-esports thing. They think esports is buttoned-up, family-friendly, broadcast-style things like that. That’s not esports. Esports is content creation, streaming, and tweeting. Esports is going to a tournament, popping off, and having those people celebrate you.
It's always been the case. I would argue that the relationship has never changed between the FGC and esports, but it's because their perception of esports is wrong. It's sort of a struggle perception where they think “esports bad” but what esports is to them isn’t actually a real thing because what we want is to entertain.
We want to make people happy and enjoy the stuff they’re watching. If we didn't accomplish that we would be bankrupt.
Do you see that relationship changing at all in the next five or ten years as both esports and fighting games continue to grow?
In five years you’re going to see Smash and the FGC become more like other esports communities. More like Fortnite in terms of players to watch, celebrate, and support that are not just icons because you can tell that one story you heard about them 20 years ago but because there’s content they’re making that people want to watch.
You’re going to see the perception of this content become more positive because so many new people are coming in that can convince those old people that this stuff’s worth it. It's bringing in new blood and more money to the pot that you can win.
I want everyone to be able to make a full-time career, not just the players. I want people to graduate high school and think, “I want to become a TO,” and there is a defined path for them to get a 401K, benefits, and employee status. I think that our communities have the capacity to achieve that someday. It will just take a lot of elbow grease.